Talk:11000 Series plug-in interface: Difference between revisions

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The part about there being no 11000 horizontal plug-in slots is complicated.
TODO(kurt): Find out whether the RIGHT plug-in slot is special in 11400 and DSA600 scopes.
I'm not sure about the digital 11000 mainframes (i.e., 11400 and DSA600),
It seems likely that it is, given that the [[11T5H]] manual says (section 1-1):
but in the 11300, the right plug-in slot is special.
<blockquote>
The 11T5H is used with Tektronix Digitizing Mainframes.
</blockquote>


First of all, a little bit about 11300 nomenclature:
and lists only 11400 and DS600 mainframes in the mainframe compatibility table (table 4-4), and the same document (section 1-7) says
In most places, the slots are referred to as "LEFT", "CENTER", and "RIGHT".
<blockquote>
In some internal documents, though, the slots are referred to as "LEFT", "RIGHT", and "AUX".
Note: If the 11T5H is to be used to trigger on signals originating from an 11A34V Video Amplifier,
One example of the confusion can be seen in the
the 11T5H must be installed in the rightmost plug-in compartment of your mainframe.
[[Media:Tek 11301 SDI signal wiring.png|11301 SDI signal wiring schematic]], where names of the wires
</blockquote>
on the left side of the schematic (i.e., pin names on the SDI chip) don't agree with the names of the wires
on the right side of the schematic (i.e., the interface board pin names).
This is really confusing since "RIGHT" sometimes refers to the middle slot and sometimes
refers to the rightmost slot. The public documentation (and user interface) are consistent:
the slots are called "LEFT", "CENTER", and "RIGHT".


The RIGHT plug-in slot in 11300 scopes is funtionally a horizontal slot in the following ways:
So it seems likely that in 11400 and DSA600 scopes, the trigger signals are routed to the RIGHT plug-in slot, same as 11300 mainframes.
* The main signal output (pins 11A/11B) from the plug-in in the right plug-in slot cannot be routed to the vertical deflection plates of the CRT.
However, unlike 11300 mainframes, 11400 and DSA600 mainframes allow the RIGHT plug-in to function as a vertical plug-in, i.e., its main signal output (pins 11A/11B) can be used as the vertical axis.
* The main signal output (pins 11A/11B) from the plug-in in the right plug-in slot can be routed to the horizontal deflection plates.
* The trigger output signals from the LEFT and CENTER plug-ins are routed to the RIGHT plug-in. This can be seen in the 11301 Interface Board schematic, an excerpt of which is here: [[Media:11301 right slot trigger inputs.png|Trigger signal feeds from LEFT and CENTER 11301 plug-ins to RIGHT plug-in]].


So in some sense, the right plug-in slot of 11300 mainframes is a horizontal slot.
Gregor: I am not an expert in 11000 series scopes at all, but some Tek documents (like the 11000 series interface description) and the existence of the 11k detector on B20 to me are a strong hint that the 11000 series scopes was initially designed to be compatible with the 7k plugins, but this feature was dropped later in the design stage? It would be interesting to mention if that is correct. Otherwise the B20 pin doesn't seem to make any sense.
But Tektronix did not sell any general-purpose timebase plug-ins for the 11000 Series,
so it's not clear what they expected people to do with the rightmost plug-in slot.


As a matter of trivia, if one were to call the 11300's RIGHT slot a "horizontal" slot,
----
then might be the only Tek scope that has a timebase part of the mainframe and also
Kurt, I also cannot claim any expertise in the 11000 series scopes, but based on [[Media:The 11400 story.pdf|Story of 11400 Development]] (who is the author?) and the mentioned [[Media:Tek 11000-series plug-in to main frame interface manual.pdf|11000-Series Plug-in to Main Frame Interface Manual]] I totally agree with you. The interface manual also lists compatibility of 7k plugins, but does not mention the mechanical obstruction from plugging them in without modification. Also the modified [[067-0587-10]] is listed in some 11k mainframe manuals in the calibration section. So my personal conclusion is that 7k plugins should be working in most (?) 11k mainframes with the limitations listed in [[Media:Tek 11000-series plug-in to main frame interface manual.pdf|11000-Series Plug-in to Main Frame Interface Manual]].
an easily swappable module.
 
However, [[John Addis]] says they dont: [[Similarity_of_11000-series_interface_and_7000-series_interface]]. (However he seems to mostly talk about how 11k plugins dont work in 7k mainframes) Based on that I was initially tempted to remove the statement in the [[11401]] page that 7k plugins are compatible. Conclusion: Its quite confusing to me at this point.
[[User:Gregor|Gregor]] ([[User talk:Gregor|talk]]) 19:30, 11 March 2021 (MST)
 
Just as a clarification: My confusion is about the compatibility of 11k mainframes with 7k plugins. As long as  [[Media:The 11400 story.pdf|Story of 11400 Development]] is trustworthy the 11k series was initially panned to be compatible with 7k plugins and I agree that we should mention this somewhere.
[[User:Gregor|Gregor]] ([[User talk:Gregor|talk]]) 19:36, 11 March 2021 (MST)
 
It is definitely that case that the initial plan was for 7k plug-ins to work in 11k mainframes,
though obviously without the fancy end-to-end calibration that makes 11k so nice.
An 11k team member confirmed that the 7A29 was used during 11k mainframe development before the 11k plug-ins were available.
[[User:Kurt|Kurt]] ([[User talk:Kurt|talk]]) 11:34, 28 December 2022 (PST)

Latest revision as of 11:37, 28 December 2022

TODO(kurt): Find out whether the RIGHT plug-in slot is special in 11400 and DSA600 scopes. It seems likely that it is, given that the 11T5H manual says (section 1-1):

The 11T5H is used with Tektronix Digitizing Mainframes.

and lists only 11400 and DS600 mainframes in the mainframe compatibility table (table 4-4), and the same document (section 1-7) says

Note: If the 11T5H is to be used to trigger on signals originating from an 11A34V Video Amplifier, the 11T5H must be installed in the rightmost plug-in compartment of your mainframe.

So it seems likely that in 11400 and DSA600 scopes, the trigger signals are routed to the RIGHT plug-in slot, same as 11300 mainframes. However, unlike 11300 mainframes, 11400 and DSA600 mainframes allow the RIGHT plug-in to function as a vertical plug-in, i.e., its main signal output (pins 11A/11B) can be used as the vertical axis.

Gregor: I am not an expert in 11000 series scopes at all, but some Tek documents (like the 11000 series interface description) and the existence of the 11k detector on B20 to me are a strong hint that the 11000 series scopes was initially designed to be compatible with the 7k plugins, but this feature was dropped later in the design stage? It would be interesting to mention if that is correct. Otherwise the B20 pin doesn't seem to make any sense.

Kurt, I also cannot claim any expertise in the 11000 series scopes, but based on Story of 11400 Development (who is the author?) and the mentioned 11000-Series Plug-in to Main Frame Interface Manual I totally agree with you. The interface manual also lists compatibility of 7k plugins, but does not mention the mechanical obstruction from plugging them in without modification. Also the modified 067-0587-10 is listed in some 11k mainframe manuals in the calibration section. So my personal conclusion is that 7k plugins should be working in most (?) 11k mainframes with the limitations listed in 11000-Series Plug-in to Main Frame Interface Manual.

However, John Addis says they dont: Similarity_of_11000-series_interface_and_7000-series_interface. (However he seems to mostly talk about how 11k plugins dont work in 7k mainframes) Based on that I was initially tempted to remove the statement in the 11401 page that 7k plugins are compatible. Conclusion: Its quite confusing to me at this point. Gregor (talk) 19:30, 11 March 2021 (MST)

Just as a clarification: My confusion is about the compatibility of 11k mainframes with 7k plugins. As long as Story of 11400 Development is trustworthy the 11k series was initially panned to be compatible with 7k plugins and I agree that we should mention this somewhere. Gregor (talk) 19:36, 11 March 2021 (MST)

It is definitely that case that the initial plan was for 7k plug-ins to work in 11k mainframes, though obviously without the fancy end-to-end calibration that makes 11k so nice. An 11k team member confirmed that the 7A29 was used during 11k mainframe development before the 11k plug-ins were available. Kurt (talk) 11:34, 28 December 2022 (PST)

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